What to do?

Questions specific to SolydK Back Office
Rocky
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Re: What to do?

Postby Rocky » 03 Oct 2014 17:00

Zill wrote:But only if there are also Windows machines on the same LAN.....
Fair point - I was making an unfounded assumption :D . Having said that I wonder how many businesses would have a Linux only network ?
jsalpha2 wrote:The whole SolydXK project is your labor of love and only you can decide what makes you happy......Good Luck
Sounds like good advice - wholeheartedly agree
"All that glisters is not gold" - Shakespeare "The Merchant of Venice"

Fargo
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Re: What to do?

Postby Fargo » 03 Oct 2014 19:36

I am self employed with no employees, so I do not need the software included in the BO. At least not that I am aware of. Some of it does in fact look interesting though.

My question is how vital are the updates you are doing. Are they required for security reasons or system stability. Or are the updates only needed to have the latest software? If you are updating only to have the latest software I would not worry about the updates at this time. Maybe just update with each new stable release. If the updates are needed for security or to maintain functionality, then you either need to be dedicated to them or not offer the BO at all. A business will not be able to have a half supported system.

Maybe this is something that should be maintained for awhile to see what continued demand is. If their is demand it can become a 'paid service'. It seems that at this point demand is low because of little marketing efforts and public awareness. Since maintenance is very time consuming on these packages, it would seem to me that small organizations that need these items would be willing to make small payments to maintain them. Can maintenance of these packages be sold as a service? It seems a shame for BO to die before its time. But I am not familiar enough with the back office workings of a company to know what all is needed.

I like the focus of SolydXK as a business desktop. I hate to see the business aspect of it disappear. But if those packages are too much work to maintain, I'd rather see the packages disappear then SolydXK disappear. If BO has to be dropped maybe SolydXK can still find other ways to help small business owners.

Rocky
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Re: What to do?

Postby Rocky » 03 Oct 2014 21:35

Fargo wrote:... Since maintenance is very time consuming on these packages, it would seem to me that small organizations that need these items would be willing to make small payments to maintain them. Can maintenance of these packages be sold as a service? .....I like the focus of SolydXK as a business desktop. I hate to see the business aspect of it disappear.
You make a very good point - which had incurred to me at an earlier stage in this thread but I didn't get around to expressing it. If small businesses are a target "market" then it is entirely reasonable that they should expect to have to contribute financially if they wish to see the software maintained. Or indeed put it the other way - it is unreasonable of a business to expect that someone should devote time and effort to providing / maintaining a service (software) to them for no return .Time maybe to emphasise that the F in FOSS means free as in freedom rather than as in beer :?:
"All that glisters is not gold" - Shakespeare "The Merchant of Venice"

Fargo
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Re: What to do?

Postby Fargo » 03 Oct 2014 22:04

Rocky wrote: If small businesses are a target "market" then it is entirely reasonable that they should expect to have to contribute financially if they wish to see the software maintained. Or indeed put it the other way - it is unreasonable of a business to expect that someone should devote time and effort to providing / maintaining a service (software) to them for no return .Time maybe to emphasise that the F in FOSS means free as in freedom rather than as in beer :?:
The flip side of this of course is the fact that businesses are trying to make profits and keep cost down. So if someone else (another distro for example) is offering the same service for free, they will likely not contribute unless you have some additional value added services. I think for the right business, the BO might be a value added service that is worth paying for. Especially if it takes that much work to keep it up to date and they don't have an IT dept. However, if its only one app that is causing the trouble, then only maintenance on that one app is really adding value. The other packages are not worth paying additional fees for if they can install/maintain it themselves.

Open source software is tough to make a business model out of. There is a lot of competition doing it all for free/donations. You really have to add something of additional value to warrant donations or 'paid for' service. For me, I may make a donation for the polish and beauty of SolydXK, but there is nothing in the BO that I need for MY business to warranty an annual payment. But then again, I am just a one man business working out of his house. My needs are very simple. Back Office might be much more valuable to others.

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fleabus
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Re: What to do?

Postby fleabus » 04 Oct 2014 00:05

jsalpha2 wrote:The whole SolydXK project is your labor of love and only you can decide what makes you happy...
Wholeheartedly agree here myself. Whatever you eventually decide, I just wanted you to know that IMO you did one heck of a great job on BO. An outstanding bit of work! Not sure how much that's worth as I'm not a business user, but to have put together an integrated turn-key back office, complete with a serious web/sql backend, on a dvd, to me is one heck of a do. My friend is maybe only interested in timekeeping, document management, and invoices/bookkeeping, and asked if that was possible. I said sure, you can use as much or as little of it as you want.

Ya Done Good Schoelje! :D

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: What to do?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 04 Oct 2014 06:21

Thank you all for your feedback!

Yesterday I have put OrangeHRM to the test: creating an update took me 8 hours and still I need to test it (which will take at least another 8 hours). OrangeHRM is one of the least complex applications of the BO applications. So, Zurmo would take at least twice that time. I now understand why the developers of these web based applications are hesitant to maintain a Debian install package. It is complicated and time-consuming.

Asking money for these kind of things is hard. Not only are people used to get everything for free, but with open source, you first need to have some market share before you can start asking money for your products and services.

I remember (don't know which) that a distribution tried to ask money for the use of their custom repository, but the community and users simply went somewhere else because they could get it for free elsewhere.

However, I'm contemplating to create a special download page for the (upcoming Jessie stable) ISOs with a reminder that a donation is very much appreciated before you can download the ISO. With the number of users we have now, I'd be very happy if everyone would donate 1 cent each month...really!


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MAYBL8
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Re: What to do?

Postby MAYBL8 » 04 Oct 2014 13:23

Schoelje,
I know I am only one user and a minority here but as I said in an earlier post I am looking to use OrangeHRM to replace an old application that the company doesn't exist anymore. I would be willing to pay to have it set up and have some training for my HR person. I don't have the time to do it myself. If you have someone or could recommend someone that would be great. You can PM me to discuss in further detail.
Thanks
Dan
My other post:
http://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php ... 760#p44668


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Zill
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Re: What to do?

Postby Zill » 04 Oct 2014 14:56

MAYBL8: It looks like OrangeHRM offer both online and on-site training...

http://www.orangehrm.com/OrangeHRM_Onsi ... ementation

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MAYBL8
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Re: What to do?

Postby MAYBL8 » 04 Oct 2014 15:32

Zill,
Thanks for the link. I will look into that.
Dan


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zerozero
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Re: What to do?

Postby zerozero » 07 Oct 2014 10:52

Schoelje wrote:However, I'm contemplating to create a special download page for the (upcoming Jessie stable) ISOs with a reminder that a donation is very much appreciated before you can download the ISO. With the number of users we have now, I'd be very happy if everyone would donate 1 cent each month...really!
i would be very careful with the implementation.
both Ubuntu and eOs tried similar approaches in the past and the backlash was huge
http://www.zdnet.com/ubuntu-linux-donat ... 000005497/
http://www.reddit.com/r/elementaryos/co ... s_be_free/
bliss of ignorance

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Zill
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Re: What to do?

Postby Zill » 07 Oct 2014 11:57

zerozero wrote:i would be very careful with the implementation.
both Ubuntu and eOs tried similar approaches in the past and the backlash was huge
I just had a (admittedly!) quick glance through the posted links and am not convinced that the backlash was "huge" as there seem to be comments both for and against. There will always be "chatter" about changes such as this but sometimes the benefits can outweigh the disadvantages. Financial security is always good for a distro if it is to survive so we do need to consider all options IMO.

On this subject, there is an interesting thread running on CrunchBang forums at the moment entitled "Invest Vs Donate". While I do not agree with the OP's premise that Linux distros should be financed by "investors", interesting points are raised by others about different methods of paying donations. Some people do have strong objections to using PayPal and/or bitcoin and so have suggested alternatives such as bank transfers or credit card payments. I believe these are valid points that may currently restrict distro incomes and so it would be useful if SolydXK would also consider additional methods of contributing.

edit: I have just had another look at the SolydXK Donations page and it looks like all these options are already there. :-) Apologies for my confusion!!! :oops:

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: What to do?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 07 Oct 2014 12:06

I think it all comes down to how you explain why it is needed and that if you cannot donate, you don't have to donate. Now, we don't do more than to provide a more or less hidden donation page on our main site and a link from our forum to that page. Perhaps we should put more effort into communicating that maintaining this distribution is a lot of work from a lot of people and that all time, knowledge, and yes, money too, is very much appreciated.

My first thought was to do that by the means of a page on the main site when you click to download the ISO. I could also re-arrange the product pages so that the value of donating is followed by the download links (at the bottom of the page). Crowd sourcing is a possibility as well, but you'll have to realize that on a per project base. Perhaps a poll to see what the community thinks about these things?

Thank you for the links. I especially liked what DanielFore wrote on the Reddit link.


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Fargo
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Re: What to do?

Postby Fargo » 08 Oct 2014 15:54

As far as donations go,it might be a good idea to simply have a 'Thank You' page or maybe a 'Sponsors" or 'Supported by' page that show the names of individuals/companies that have provided financial support at various levels. This would give companies and organizations a little recognition and advertising for their support. It could also be encouraging to others to donate similarly.

So did you make a decision on BO? It sounds like those that use it REALLY need someone like you to put it together. But does that feature bring in enough users to make it worth the effort? Are they more likely to donate? Is this a growing segment? I think the growth of BO is very important. If its a growing segment and word is getting out about its features and functionality, maybe its worth maintaining.

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: What to do?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 08 Oct 2014 17:29

Unfortunately we don't have any sponsors.
There are some users who donate on a more or less regular basis, however.
Donations are few but they help me to cover the recurring costs.
I don't know how these users would like to see their nick name with their donation listed in a SolydXK blog.
I admit, I haven't given that much thought. Somehow it feels...not right.

BO...well, I'm going to give it another try after the new ISOs, but I have to be careful not to spend too much time into it.
I still have to do a lot before Jessie's transition.


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fleabus
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Re: What to do?

Postby fleabus » 08 Oct 2014 17:56

Schoelje wrote:There are some users who donate on a more or less regular basis, however.
For BO specifically...? I know nothing of the business aspect of Solyd. From the tone of the preceding posts it doesn't sound as if any of the downloaders of BO were actually serious, or have maintained contact, but rather just the curious, or those who downloaded the wrong ISO by mistake...?

If the threat of discontinuing BO hasn't brought anyone out of the woodwork screaming, "Oh No!" then maybe not to continue... But then again, maybe BO hasn't been sufficiently marketed and hasn't had a fair chance to get off the ground.

BO is definitely geared toward businesses with more than just a few employees. Maybe "intermediate" isn't the right word either, but it's definitely for larger concerns than we appear to have here in the forum. Maybe I'm mistaken about all that though...

It's a hard thing to know. Like Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing.
Schoelje wrote:I don't know how these users would like to see their nick name with their donation listed in a SolydXK blog....Somehow it feels...not right.
It gives me an icky feeling too, smacks too much of hubris. If it were me, I would be too embarrassed to want anything like that. Some folks aren't bothered I suppose....

Not that I wouldn't be proud of having donated to a worthy and deserving project.
I'd just hate the idea of being too public about it afterwards, like bragging.

Fargo
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Re: What to do?

Postby Fargo » 08 Oct 2014 18:41

Schoelje wrote: I don't know how these users would like to see their nick name with their donation listed in a SolydXK blog.
I admit, I haven't given that much thought. Somehow it feels...not right.

BO...well, I'm going to give it another try after the new ISOs, but I have to be careful not to spend too much time into it.
I still have to do a lot before Jessie's transition.
Good point. I hadn't really given it much thought either. It was kind of a write it down direct from the brain without thinking it through idea. I could understand not wanting your name next to the donations page.

I agree that the BO may not be worth spending too much time on. I think if everything is working fine, I would worry about the updates until Jessie is stable.

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: What to do?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 10 Oct 2014 07:02

Business model posts were moved to their own topic here: http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4826


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expatria
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Re: What to do?

Postby expatria » 19 Oct 2015 12:25

Zill wrote:.... Financial security is always good for a distro if it is to survive so we do need to consider all options IMO.

.... and so it would be useful if SolydXK would also consider additional methods of contributing.

edit: I have just had another look at the SolydXK Donations page and it looks like all these options are already there. :-) Apologies for my confusion!!! :oops:
Uhhhmmmm, not quite - where would I send Bitcoin or Litecoin to ?


My apologies for re-opening this subject, but it seemed proper to reply to the single reference to bitcoin here:

in response to the request on http://solydxk.nl/your-donation-is-very-welcome/
I had previously visited the donation page and found no address to send bitcoins.

Being one of millions people who no longer have bank accounts due to issues of Nationality,
my only options to offer assistance are somewhat limited to BitCoin and LiteCoin.

It is rather difficult to kick-start a PayPal account without credit cards or other banking.

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: What to do?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 19 Oct 2015 12:44

Hi expatria, and welcome to our forum!

I haven't considered Bitcoin as a payment method because the ISP hosting SolydXK doesn't except Bitcoin payments. If I could transfer the Bitcoin payments to my Paypal account that would be a solution. I don't know if that can be done, though.


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expatria
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Re: What to do?

Postby expatria » 19 Oct 2015 17:08

I am digging for some other things at the moment
but I remember seeing something new on reddit/r/bitcoin about
some new Austrian outfit complying with everything Paypal wanted to bring Bitcoin transactions to Paypal.

I will see if I can find it when I get a free moment, but it did sound like a legitimate channel for getting Bitcoin translated.

BTW - your UEFI boot system is simply the best I have seen so far.
SolydXK leaves both of Ubuntu (all versions) and Sabayon gagging dust on Baytrail.

cheers for the moment...


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